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In before piracy wank.
FAIL
to say “first”
Like school, without the benefits.
the market has to change. other than the developer’s time, you aren’t paying for anything but a disk, and even those are becoming outdated
Well actually scripters and programmers and all the people who did the app get paid by the hour as anyone would do.. so if you pirate a program you just take away from the company =O so no big deal imo
It wouldn’t be a big deal if the executives were absorbing the losses, but they typically pass them on to the workers instead. Either that or they pass them to the other consumers by increasing the price.
Which makes a good deal of piracy rationale BS. Executives get a minor pay cut, and a few hundred people get fired.
Every single study I’ve read says piracy raises brand awareness which overall *INCREASES SALES*. So the developer makes *MORE* Money so long as you tell people about it.
That said I’m in favor of “Scratchware” which has 4 main points.
1: If you can’t buy it because it’s out of print, it’s moral to pirate software so it is not forgotten.
2: It is within a customer’s right to “try before you buy” software.
3: If you pirate software, tell people what you think of it, honestly and completely.
4: It is not moral to pirate software without the intention of purchasing it later.
I stick to these 4 things, developers of GOOD products make more money, ones of bad ones don’t.
HEar Hear!
I pirated new vegas played it for an hour then went out and bought it. Well worth your money
Mhm.. And who’s paying the scripters and programmers? That company you’ve just deprived income. So how do you think – will programmers get paid well for their work?
Makeing games, movies and music is art. It is not like you do your 8 hour shift, take your money and go. You have to come with something valuable for other people. You cannot just record your four tones on a guitar and expect everybody to pay for it even before they heard it.
Not to mention, of course, almost all the money go for the manufacturing of DVD/CD media and distribution. Only about 2% goes to the author. Without the distribution and production of media there will be much more money left for the author, even when not all the people will pay for the product. Its just the distribution companies will die. At the end more authors will be able to create art and live from it.
another thing: pretty much noone who downloads the stuff would buy it, if he has to, so there is really little or no loss of money
Yup them might lose their job lol.
Was just pointing out the graphic is not really accurate
Boohoo, so EA or ActiBlizzard dont get even more money, most of their current teams are dried up anyway and dont deserved to be paid…hell now that Activision gets half the money from the mint that is world of Warcraft subscriptions they never have to make another new franchise EVER.
Im more then willing to pay for original content from Indie developers who still have the twinkle of ingenuity in their eyes and make games because it was their dream as kids and it makes them happy…I vote with my dollars or withholding of them
Why should the market have to change? Because people don’t want to pay for stuff? Conventionally, those people are called “thieves”. and the market has changed; Steam is several times more popular than World of Warcraft.
Steam isn’t a game you moron.
Supply and demand. By definition of the free market, the market has to change to suit the demands of the people. If the demands of the people are such that they are brought to piracy/theft because of the current rules attached to supply (DMCA, etc.), then it is the task of the producer to change their rules and/or supply.
And conventionally, those who don’t want to be bounded by unfair laws are called “heroes”, “revolutionaries” or “communists”, depending if they lived in movies, Europe or America respectively.
Did you just unmake your point in the last sentence?
You think any creative work is just about the ‘talent’. What about all those that make it possible.
Take an album. Its not just the musicians – there are all the technicians etc who make sure the music records correctly, there is the recording studio, a hi-tech building which needs to paid for and maintained. There are those promoting awareness (A&R, ad execs etc). You think web space is free?
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
the graphic is rubbish.
In school you (or the taxpayers, which might still be you) pay for the privilege of working your ass off in the hopes you might learn something.
Not the same at all.
Oh lol, you think you learn stuff in school…
If you don’t get the value of schooling, then you probably won’t grasp the ethical issues of piracy.
I know the value of schooling.
The value of schooling is that it teaches kids to obey perceived authority without thinking so that they won’t change society.
Also, learning s**t, critical thinking, and argumentative skills. Apparently you didn’t get much out of schooling if all you learned was “The man’s trying to bring me down!”
Watch it fellas, the man is trying to bring us down.
Well guess what? I’m not paying 500 dollars for a Photoshop program that could easily be lost or deleted by a virus.
erm… viruses can’t wipe out purchased programs, and you can always reinstall them.
And a photoshop license costs more around > $1000 mark…
Viruses can wipe out any data on your hard drive. Including that purchase code you paid for. All depends on what the virus is set up to do. Or were you being a prig, and going to point out the proper term is a worm, or some other nonsense that no one really cares about?
he’s being a Smeg.
Also, pointing out that Virii Can NOT penetrate CDs/ DVDs. though the old style disks, 3.5, and 5.25 were still vonerable.
Yes but nowadays if you buy something online it is linked to an account wich will let you download for free or is already available for trial. You just gotta keep your cd key. And if you ever lost it, you could always go to support and they will help.
Exactly.
I dont like paying for software as much as the next guy, but as a programer I feel the need to shoot down some of the petty attitudes displaye here
Lost disc. F**ked computer. Then what? That is what I meant.
Contact the manufacturer with proof of purchase?
I’ll stop feeding you now.
Epic troll is indeed epic.
I tend to sway back and forth from totally awesome to epic, but you are pretty much correct.
And free open source programs are becoming more and more viable, such as free (as in beer and speech!) Linux as opposed to $300 Windows.
when has school ever been hard?
Two things that produce similar results are identical. Therefore, my bicycle is a ferarri. Awesome.
Yes, if you take this to mean that piracy removes the original.
Internet piracy isn’t theft by that definition. You first have to prove that there was a possible sale lost. Internet pirates are not going to buy the product anyway, so how is there any possible lost profit? The pirate will either illegally download the program or not have it at all, so either way the developer doesn’t get paid.
Talk to a farmer about working your ass off for nothing.
No… If you are talking to American farmers, then it would be talking about getting paid out the ass for doing nothing. Except have speculators come out to announce the fields aren’t right to grow (insert crop here) yet.
I hate to break it to you, but I know of MANY farmers who work very hard farming their land to produce crops that bring in very little profit. Just because the nation has glorified the issue of the government paying farmers not to farm does not mean that all (or even a majority) of the farmers in America recieve this benefit.
Well : to be able to compare, just wait for a machine able to duplicate vegetables and meat with no cost…
When we get to this point, the farmer will just grow a few potatoes for his own use, and everybody else will just copy those. Oh sure, he’ll grow and breed a few more, just so to please a few people wanting to eat *real* potatoes, wrapped in a branded bag and so on. And then, everybody will be happy, right? Why would I pay for something that has no other interest as the farmer’s one: he works _for_ his own, I should _not_ pay him for that!
What is the difference with digital copies? Well, with those, we already have our *duplicating for free* machines : no need to imagine talks with imaginary farmers from a brighter future.
Digital present almost already is as bright as it comes. Piracy is NOT theft, though Intellectual property IS a crime, in itself.
What do you think programmers, producers, musicians are just a bunch of guys who get together and are all like “Hey lets make this kick-ass game / movie / music totally for our own; the money we will live off of will just drop out of the executives’ asses and then everyone can use our work for free and we won’t be hurt by it”?
Communism doesn’t work and never will work. People need incentive to work. When there isn’t any, s**t just does not get done.
Piracy is not theft. Piracy is fraud. It still sucks to be the losing side.
even in communism people get paid for a finished product you retard, they all have an income and all projects have budgets . stop being an idiot and get your head out of your ass for 2 minutes. while you do that take a deep breath and maybe your brain will start working.
just because your stupid american ass educated on facebook bough useless s**t all it’s life and worked for minimum wage, it doesn’t mean the rest of the world does or should.
when a project is started in a domain that can be affected by piracy , the potential piracy money loss is taken into question and a budget is made with that factor in mind. and if you had any experience other than farmville or whatever s**t you american idiots waste your time on you would notice this.
fighting piracy is a lost cause. making it serve your purpose or better producing something OF REAL IMPORTANCE AND GOOD (!!!) rather than trying to sell s**t-in-a-box to the idiot population, is the way to go in the future.
“thinking is not a commodity, but an obligation “
This is why I hate globalization.
I love Ghandi, he’s my hero.
(waits for someone to understand my statement)
Yes Ghandi was very much in favor of a local economy. Globalization will only work if all nations pay equal wages, in which case all goods will start to be locally created again. Tough sell to those who are lining their pockets off the current model though.
Sooner or later, that farmer’s not going to be able to grow potatoes. Even if he gets a duplicator himself, people are still just going to get it for free.
And a lot of people prefer to sneak onto the farm, duplicate the potatoes, and pass them around before the farmer ever takes them to market.
There still will be people paying the farmer to create new brands of potatoes. Merely growing more of the same indeed won’t pay anymore — but why should it?
…by the time we can duplicate food, then, to be honest, money probably won’t exist at that point, because everything would be just about free. at that point you start a pure fame economy.
There is insurance for that.
But please, please don’t get my grandfather started. He just never shuts up. I love the crazy f-cker but sometimes there’s a limit to how I can take the senile ramblings he produces.
More grad school than others, by the way.
Not paying the people who actually produce intellectual items means that they will have no incentive to produce more items.
By intelelctual items I mean software, music, books, etc. Things that can be electronically stored and so copied indefinitely.
However, not paying the distributors of said intellectual property means that we will have to find another method of finding and getting intellectual property. Like, say… the internet.
It also means that intellectual property distributors will lose many jobs. So people working for GameSpot, Bookstores, Music Stores. Hope you’re job is OK.
Yes companies like Sony and RIAA cause problems, can create overpaid artists, and siphon money from artists and end users. But some of the money goes to pay you or your friends.
If anyone can think of a solution where the original artists get paid, and the newly unemployed don’t depress the local economy, then please let me know.
Cool story, bro
Agreed.
Well said. iTunes and Kindle (not exclusively, just as examples) allow the creator to also essentially be the distributor. Apple and Amazon act as the respective middlemen, but really only in that they host the files on well-known websites. It’s the difference between setting up shop on the side of the road and setting up in a shopping mall.
Anyway, if your file is pirated, the only loss you endure is whatever your cut would have been. In other words, they don’t pass their loss on to you by reducing your cut for future sales, nor do they withhold payment if other people’s works have been pirated. At the very least, it’s a good start.
The problem is not having to pay for those things. The problem is overpricing. there are things that are just so overpriced that most people say “f**k it, ill just download it”
Like windwos costing around $200, its a robbery.
Music CDs for $50? screw that.
Photoshop? hell theres no way that could cost that.
The problem here is that companies want money, and not just money, they want enough money so the CEO can have his own f**king country. I have nothing against millonaires, is they are, then they must have done something good. But overpricing things and then complaining about piracy is thef when the real theft is the price they are charging is plain stupid.
Agreed, the reason photo-shop is so high is because there are no competitors, graphical companies NEED to buy it if they want to get anywhere so they rip everyone off because of it, they should do a non corporate version for a reasonable price, would make them way more money if common sense applies.
I have a problem with millionaires. I’ll be damned if anybody is worth well over 1000 times more than another person. Many people make $1 or less a day, while the fat cats money makes itself off of the poor.
im afraid no one can stop technology. you can cope with it, and find a new way to be paid for something people want to pay you for, or shake your angry fists to the sky and cry a river.
music artists can eran a living from live performances, and the entertainmet industry can just find a new business model since this is running from the ’20. videogames are so lame nowadays, the day they get out most of them are unplayable, all bugged up, and you got to wait a couple of months before they get patched, the vast majority of them arent worth replay a third time, and then you sit and think how long did it take to you to earn those 60€/$/£ and how fast they went down the sink.
I wont call it prowess, this is just what technology is today, what allows people to do, an the overall perceived value for those goods. Hell, id rather pay for not to listen some heavy rotation songs at the radio, in malls, in advertisings, and so on. can you expect a kid would pay for having a digital copy of a song it has already willy-nilly listened to 10 times that day?
Why can’t I make intellectual items for the sake of knowing my intellectual s**t is out there? Why do I have to get paid for my intellectual s**t, before I’m motivated to make it? Nobody paid me to post this reply, yet it’s really intellectual.
Sure, you can do that. But some people need, you know, money for food and rent. So if they’re writing books/music/programs/etc. as a job, they either need to make enough money to live, or else stop making those things and get a job elsewhere. And if all artists stopped producing intellectual works, the world would be a damn more depressing place.
Or like working for any large Corporation that claims your creativity and effort as their intellectual property.
Bacon rulz!!!!
If you think working your ass off in school doesn’t pay off, go ahead and drop out. See how far you can get working fast food or retail all your life while trying to support a family because you never got an education. Enjoy living in a space that’s far too small, while wearing clothes that are falling apart because you can’t afford new ones, and worrying about what you’ll get the kids for Christmas when you can’t even afford to keep the gas on.
Yeah, school definitely isn’t worth the hard work.
Well, school, ehh, maybe.
But homework? Work we have to do outside of our daily imprisonment? I’d like a little more for that than “okay, you got this many”.
I’d say the poster nicely illustrates why theft and ‘piracy’ are in fact totally different.
The original analogy makes much more sense than the school nonsense.
Is it bad, that being called a pirate sounds cool!!!
Damn you Jack Sparrow!!! xD
Only if you think that being a drunk moron who is hated by everyone around him is cool
Well it is pretty cool, I mean look at those guys on those Navy commercials and movies! They look so happy, and yet they hate everyone around them! When i grow up im gonna be just like them! oh wait im already there, GODDAMN THIS JOB SUCKS! im going back to being a priate… atleast they have ethics and honor compared to military and corperate buissnesses
you were often dropped as child, right? xD
*Captain Jack Sparrow
Actually, school is worse than piracy. You work your ass off and have to pay someone else to let you do it.
Do what you want ’cause a pirate is free, YOU are a Pirate!
WIN!
So who wants to bet the creators of the original chart just google searched images without consulting the creator of those images?
LOL, you’re probably right.
Lol they way I think of it is that record companies tend to get all the profits from music off of itunes etc, and they are not the people who worked their asses off. However, when I download a bunch of music for free and discover I like a bunch of new artists, I will go to their concerts and they will make significantly more money off of me.
intellectual property is theft (c) gsw 2001
Well.. piracy… how i see things…then the companies who make software aren’t at a huge loss because 99% of the people don’t have the money to buy the stuff they are downloading. And wouldn’t buy it anyway if they had to pay. So perhaps… if piracy would get abolished the industry would be at a loss or even decrease. Because they would lose an important commercial source. Back in the day If i wouldn’t have downloaded HL2 i wouldn’t have bought it.
If there were no piracy and each game was 10 cents or less. I would feel that the money isn’t worth the time I spend playing the game.
it ain’t stealing if i wasn’t going to buy it anyway – yar!
I do it for the LOVE, not the money, baby. You can’t steal love!
ARE THEY STEALZIN MAH PIGGY?
This makes me very displeased.
This ENTIRE thread of comments, can be summed up to this single comment.
Pirates of the internet, like the ocean, will always exist till the end of time, get over it, besides, 80% of the internet pirates are in the military anyways.
Yes, I would like that to be true too. But I use free products from teh internet AVGFree, Spybot, Firefox, Adobe, etc. And even though they are excellent products I still hapily take them for free. Do you pay for your free products?
Companies which are sponsered by others pay people to make most of these software (not all though obviously). Even the ones who write software for the love of the product often ask for a PayPal donation.
Don’t get me wong. I am against the massive overcharging of movies, music, and software. I am also against the obscene profits companies make misusing the laws designed to protect the creator of the intellectual property. What I am trying to say is that if DRM failed globally tomorrow, then not everyone would be smiley, happy, people. And it would probably affect you.
If a company writes commercial software and then everyone can copy it for free, the company will go under. The ordinary working stiffs who write the software for a paycheck will no longer be in a job. So they will have to try to find another job (maybe yours), get money from the government, or starve.
I am fully aware that many people create things for free. You are also aware that many more people create these thing because they love it and because it earns them enough income to live, survive, even prosper.
I too would like to pay these people directly. In theory. But if I can get their products for free from a file sharing system I think I would. Can you honestly say you wouldn’t?
oh shut up , american retards. you were raised and taught to think like an unstoppable consumer cattle of idiots. f**k off and shut up when it comes to piracy because if you had products that would make me buy them , i would, but the sad truth is that about 80% of the software americans make is pure crap and retard-friendly. the really depressing truth is that the software market is filled with american crap and my options are limited and i’ll be damned if I spare one euro on your retarded asses
sincerely, a pirate.
btw , your people are so retarded , they actually pay good money for a justin bieber album . I mean really. LOL
You’re right about Americans being raised and taught to think like an unstoppable consumer cattle of idiots. That’s why I’m leaving when I’m eighteen.
Eurotard is seriously jealous….
Great generalizations, btw.
Come back when you aquire a real education.
*acquire
I say pirating software is punishable, but music, that I have little qualms about. I would rather pay to support the artists directly than pay through a record company.
1. As a programmer of computer games, I must inform you that I was always paid.
2. Game programmers, artists, etc. are laid off whether or not the product was a success. They made the game, we don’ need ‘em no more. And if we keep them on for the sequel, they’ll feel entitled, and they’re just mouths to feed in between development cycles.
3. The only path to promotion in most companied in a technology industry is job hunting.
4. All of that said, even though a music company takes a big cut, software developers are usually completely cut out, except for what they collect to DO the work. It’s almost exclusively ‘work for hire’. You did the work? Good-bye.
5. ‘Gamestop’ and other such places where they exchange games are engaged in piracy seven days a week. You get five or ten dollars back for returning that game, but the people who created it get shafted out of 100% of the sales for that game, and any residuals they might have managed to cling to. Same with CD exchange places, DVD exchange, etc. In fact, many times, they make a far smaller run, knowing the game will be ‘recycled’ in this way, so only the first wave of purchases matters.
6. It’s all huge damned corporations. It’s why there’s very little ‘new’ gets developed, besides ‘me-too’ clones of existing games and products. The highway to success is paved with the bones of the pioneers.
Okay, I have officially decided where I stand on this issue. Thank you for posting the best comment here.
Hear Hear! I agree totally.
Your point 5 is what I came here to comment about, but you made it first. Along with a few other things, though.
Games go out of print, and then the only way to get them is going to be buying them used. But I don’t see why Nintendo is going to make money if I buy Zelda used at Gamestop or a garage sale. Now, the Wii Shop Channel has old games for sale, so that removes an excuse. If I’ve never owned Super Mario: Lost Levels, I can now buy it there, and Nintendo profits. Though, say I owned Kirby 64 and it was stolen, or my N64 decides that over 10 years of use is too much and it dies. Should I have to buy it again? I owned a true copy of it, I shouldn’t have to buy a game more than once.
Also, video game rentals. Blockbuster and Redbox rent out games. I’m all for testing a game before I buy it, but that’s third-party profit. If I have to worry about late fees or expensive rental prices, I want it to at least be for the company that made the game. If my computer will play a Playstation game that’s a month or two old, I’ll try it for a week on my computer, and then decide if it’s worth buying. With rentals, I lose money either way, and game companies don’t profit from that. Recent example, I patched around the anti-piracy and played the Japanese version of Pokemon White, not even installing the English patch. After one week, I deleted it and decided that I’m going to be buying it the day it comes to USA. It’s just a good bit of nostalgic fun that will be worth $50.
Out of print is another problem. Sega is something that comes to mind immediately. At one point, my Genesis cords broke. I got the cords off eBay, but couldn’t play at all until they were fixed. So I put some Sega games onto my computer. Sega isn’t truly in business anymore, so no one at all should lose money on a download of Sonic or Might and Magic. In fact, the entire collection of every Sega Genesis game exists on one download, under one gigabyte. No one loses from a download of that.
Turned into an opinion-rant, but valid points, I believe. I download games I’ve owned that were stolen, download to test before I buy, and download old games. And if I can find a downloaded game somewhere, I’d prefer to play it on the original system than my computer, hence the large collection of new and used games I own. Not any more wrong than paying for a Blockbuster or Gamestop membership card.
ahaha now barter is piracy, too. sounds like my government that outlawed family bingo games because it became a statal monopoly gambling game.
this business model is crap.
In Denmark you get paid to go to school if you are over 18 years old.
Always wondered this: How is piracy any different than a Public Library? They have C.D’s and movies for free too… o.O
Yes,
some people don’t get any profit from school.
That’s what public assistance is for…
Pirate – another name for democrat. Take what is not yours.
Empty developer wallet. . .
Sure . . .
198 people are teachers that get paid for doing absolutely nothing
(kind of like my 4th grade teachers)
Well, developers count loss because of piracy into price, ergo if I copy something someone else will pay for it, so we can pirate as much as we want – developers wont go bankrupt because Americans will pay for it
Funny wordplay: If you don’t get paid for it, it by definition is not “work” but a hobby.
If I make something, put it into Internet and someone uses without paying (for him/herself), it’s OK. Only the greed master expects to be paid also for his hobbies.
No matter time he has used, it’s still not “work”: There’s a salary for that. It’s like expecting a pay for community work.
If someone sells it for their own profit, that’s another thing.
How come the first one is a crime but the second one is not? Answer: Record company “sponsored” laws.
Artists steal all the time from earlier artists, often up to direct copy level and the original artists don’t get paid a penny. Not only that: The new ones then sell these pieces as their own and make millions.
And ordinary people are the “pirates”? Who is buying that?
“Pirate – another name for democrat. Take what is not yours.”
Genuine conservative view: a lie and an insult in the same package: When a conservative takes your tax money, you definitely don’t have anything left. When a pirate makes a copy, original is still there and nothing is “taken”. That’s the difference between pirate and Conservative. Hard to understand, eh?
Also Conservatives are happy to sell you something they don’t own, just for profit and then whine when you don’t pay, just like record companies.