Your analogy is incomplete. Species is an objective concept with real implications in the real world. Gender is a societal construct based loosely around a biological one but by no means dependent on it, as demonstrated by people like Nong Poy.
That they are, although they’re not always as clear cut as you likely believe.
As I said, though, we’re talking about gender here, not physical sex, nor genitals (which are only a part of one’s physical sex). Your comparison is not incomplete, it’s just idiotic. It’s like you didn’t even read my comment.
Wrong! No matter how many scalpels you make you acquaintance with, you can never get rid of those boy chromosomes. He is a boy* without a schlong and with fake tits.
Key word is USED to be. If she’s a she now, why does it matter if she was once a boy? If the sex change is complete then she’s all woman. No male parts, wouldn’t be able to tell she was ever a man. Only real difference is not being able to reproduce.
Eh, some people are shallow. They think that since someone USED to have a penis, they still do, so they think being attracted to someone who is a woman, but at one point, was a man, is gay
Boy. I never thought not wanting to have sex with a transgender post op would be included on the list of what’s considered shallow. I mean, only liking a girl for her boobs, or refusing to date anyone who isn’t blonde is one things, but has the LGBT movement gone so far as to tell hetero people what they are attracted to and what they aren’t?
I mean, last time I checked anyone would say a good portion of attraction is mental. Take a look at Back to the Future. If you ran into your own mom, and you didn’t know it was her, you’d think she’s hot. Marty’s mom was hot. However… it’s your mom. The moment you learn that your attraction would disappear. However… there is a small segment that would still do it.
So, just because you have absolutely no hesitation in your mind in this arena doesn’t mean no one else will. In fact I would say the lack of acceptance that there’s more than one viewpoint on the question of attraction is very intolerant on your level because you refuse to understand people who wouldn’t find Nong Poy attractive.
I on the other hand couldn’t care less if anybody here finds her attractive. Realistically, I have the best answer for this question. Do what you like, just don’t hurt anyone else and don’t force your beliefs on anyone.
That’s an interestingly idiotic interpretation of that post.
The correct interpretation would have been that lich was saying that it’s shallow to look down on someone else’s attraction to someone who was born the other gender, not that it’s shallow to not be attracted to someone because they used to be the other gender.
“Eh, some people are shallow. They think that since someone USED to have a penis, they still do…”
Um… exactly in what context, even with the “so they think being attracted to someone who is a woman, but at one point, was a man, is gay”, does that not mean that as long as the person doesn’t have a penis that you shouldn’t be unattracted to that?
Reading comprehension fail. Lich was injecting his own opinion, but the first part of his sentence attempted to invalidate those who didn’t agree with it.
You paraphrased to make the statement lose its meaning, then debunked your new statement. This is called a strawman. It is considered a logical fallacy. Now you know.
What to do next time:
“It was my interpretation that they meant it more like, ‘so they think being attracted to someone who is a woman, but at one point, was a man, is gay,’ and I am of the opinion that this point could be countered by saying, ‘does that not mean that as long as the person doesn’t have a penis that you shouldn’t be unattracted to that?’
I apologize that we did not find the same meanign in the same writing, but hey, meaning is subjective so don’t feel bad.”
So, you admit interpretation is subjective, but refer to a differing opinion, even when posting the quote in full context (separated to allow commentary, not deleted or abridged) as a strawman argument?
lol serioulsy i lied, i acutally red you comment and i find it pertinent, i don’t espect to seen pointfull comments on memebase.. but i’m lucky there still are normal poeple on internet ( intelectually speaking )
I actually know of a trans guy, and he has been attracted to people he thought were other guys before, but then found out they were just androgynous girls, and was instantly no longer attracted. He didn’t understand it himself, but it’s true, attraction can be mental too.
I do think that not being attracted to someone because of them being trans is a subconscious type of ignorance or prejudice though, but only a subconscious/emotional one, and it doesn’t make someone a bad person.
sadly, that’s your opinion. He turned out pretty, that’s for sure; but it is a fact that there is a LOT of people who will never consider him a woman. People should know that, acceptation will not come all at once, and not everyone will agree to the idea of sex change being that simple, i don’t. I think the subject is too delicate. It does not mean you are shallow btw, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It does not make you narrow minded, either. I simply do not think that it is as simple as removing your penis.
that last sentence came out wrong. Of course it is not that simple, it’s a human being’s life and happiness. I just think it is even MORE complex than what we are aware of. Just to clear that up
You know, recognizing a problem “a LOT of people [...] will never consider him a woman” and still not respecting how someone wishes to be called (in this case “she”, not “he”) ist kind of sad.
The thing is: if you didn’t know she was trans, would you still call her a “he”? No, you wouldn’t, ’cause she doesn’t look like a man at all. So you take a look at her, think “pretty girl” and then, when you know she’s trans, you switch to “he”, by which you’re making the situation more difficult than it actually is.
So, just answer this question, please: why do you make an affort to switch to the non-correct pronoun? Why is it so hard to just respect her as a human being? Just saying “she” and “her” isn’t asking much. THAT is narrow-mindedness.
And even if i HAD inserted all the care and hardcore meditation in the world in writing “he” because i considered her a “he”, that would not be wrong of me. And the fact that if the pronoun is correct or not, is your opinion. And if you can’t accept that I have my own, in which i fully believe, just like you do in yours; you are very narrow-minded. I respect your opinion, but mine is not the same. sorry, life’s interesting like that.
First of all: It is, indeed, fairly obvious that you do not put much thought into your posts. We all type in haste on occasion, but if you routinely follow an initial comment up with five self-responses, all with horrible grammar, you should perhaps stop and consider your words more.
Second: Do you have a right to your own opinions? Yes. Does that make intolerance of your intolerance narrow-minded? No. You’re free to consider Nong Poy a man. You’re also free to consider gay people as perverts, or non-whites as subhuman, or Catholics as evil or atheists as devil-worshippers or whatever other group as whatever other misconception you wish. But it still makes you intolerant.
So, what are intersex individuals, in your point of view? What about women with hysterectomies, or men who’ve lost testicles to testicular cancer? Not only does gender have nothing to do with sex, but your view of what constitutes biological sex is overly shallow.
That’s moronic. Not all women (those genetically and anatomically born female) have ovaries, just as all men (those genetically and anatomically born male) have testicles. These people do not cease to be men or women when they lose them or have them removed, so obviously you’re wrong.
Also, you’re completely disregarding intersex individuals, as so many people so often do.
Finally, man and woman are not synonymous with male and female. Gender and sex are not the same thing, and trans people (along with androgynes and those of multiple genders) are evidence of that.
She/he is prettier than many mannnyyy real girls out there, I don’t really care but I would totally tap that, I mean come on! She he is hot, and as a plus no baby risk ahah but seriousky, there’s nothing dangling there so is all good
god, why do people have to get so worked up? He said nothing wrong, and anyone with half a brain would understand what lalala meant. And infertile women are NOT the same as transexuals.
It’s not about that, and that is not what I meant, regardless of how it came out. What bothers me is people thinking that just because someone can’t think of a transgenders as fully female or male, he/she is an intolerant, narrow minded person, and that is not true. Just the fact that my mind does not fully accept the idea DOES NOT mean that i hate them, or judge them. They still live and exist and deserve all the happiness in the world, regardless if i accept them or not, and i have no interest in getting in their way to do so. It’s not about stopping “transphobia”, because you can not force a person to understand and accept, it’s about stopping the hate. You can disagree to someone’s lifestyle all you want, that’s up to you. Tolerance, in this case, does NOT mean agreeing fully in the nature of transgenders, and if you can’t cope with that you are severely immature and narrow minded; It’s about acknowledging them, and their right to be happy as an indisputable right.
You need to distinguish between “can’t accept” and “won’t accept”. If someone is truly incapable of that kind of mental adjustment then I pity them. The inability to go through life without any sort of enlightenment must be horrible.
They are both women without fully functional sets of uterus/ovaries aren’t they? Unless you like to genotype your dates before sleeping with them to check for Y chromosomes there is no real difference.
IF they tell you “I used to be a man” Straight up i don’t see the problem, the problem is that most of them DON’T … there are people who don’t care, there are those that do, everything would be solved if they just say it rather than trying to hide it.
Yeah, right. Because they don’t risk discrimination and even violence by telling anyone that they’re trans, do they. Life would be SO SIMPLE if everyone just stopped being a bigoted prick, now wouldn’t it.
Is there a point where we say, “Hey, you’re not a dude anymore! Now we can haz the s*x and I’m still hetero!”.
Better “Hey, you’re actually a she now!”
Everyone: she is a woman. She has been a woman since she began identifying as such. Pre/post/non-op, doesn’t matter. Referring to her as a guy is insensitive and inaccurate.
And they’re insensitive. Judging by your other comments, I presume you’re one of them.
If people can’t accept a transsexual person as the gender they identify as, op or not, they need to do what they do for the other 95+% of the population: ignore them.
If they aren’t with you (nobody specifically here), there’s little-to-no reason for you to know or care what their past may be. If knowing the fact changes your attraction, move on or close the window. Only insensitive dillweeds or bigots would go to the extent of insulting them or diminishing their struggles/efforts.
Holy s**t, i do not hate them. Tolerance does not mean agreeing on every different opinion, it’s about accepting it and respecting it as such. The fact that i have my own opinion about trangenders DOES NOT mean i hate them or that I would get out of my way to insult them. That is not intolerance, that is just hate. So just because i don’t agree with you doesn’t make me a bad person. That’s what i’m trying to say, there’s a whole spectrum of thoughts in the matter, not only the hardcore defenders, the ‘haters’, the ones who don’t give a f**k, and people need to understand that.
Yes. You see? Intolerance and hate are different things. Not respecting the identity of trans people, and making no effort to when interacting with them, IS intolerance. Not hate, but intolerance.
I’m going to put this out there: for most people, this is something very new. Most people don’t know how misgendering can be very hurtful, and how it supports a society which does SGD people. I get that, and so I won’t say you are a bad person for thinking this is okay.
However, as a trans woman, I am telling you these things right now. If you want to be respectful, I implore you to take this on board, and try to take steps to be more respectful in the future, if not in your beliefs then at least in your speech. I don’t think you’re a bad person for not knowing these things, but choosing to remain ignorant is another matter entirely.
Oh god, It doesn’t mean that i do not consider them people, honestly, what the hell? They are just as human as I am, and with all the same rights. I do not hate them, i would not get out of my way to insult them, because the fact that i think differently does not turn me into a cruel person. I don’t think i’m better than them, not at all. And just because i have a different opinion, doesn’t mean that i am a hateful person.
In the context of something like this, merely saying you don’t recognize that they are the gender they identify as is being hurtful. And sometimes, is very easily taken as hateful.
You’re overreacting to a lot of comments as replies to what you’ve said, by the way. You might want to tone down the sensitivity to criticism.
lol, yeah well, im a noob in commenting, so i don’t really know when to stop… hahah i didnt intend to be all intense, sorry, its just that it being the subject that it is i didn’t want anyone to misunderstand what i wanted to say…. anyways sorry for the oversensitive rant
Nope. Sorry. This is basically saying we need to accept that, to many, gay couples will never have “real relationships”.
I realise it’s hard. My family struggles with it. They put in the effort, though. I understand that peoples’ brains have been trained to view people in ways that are very problematic for trans people, and they may get it wrong from time to time. There’s a difference between that and not even trying, though.
If you want to interact with, or make a comment about, a trans person, then you need to make an effort to respect their identity. Not just their right to happiness – their identity, because their identity is integral to their happiness. You don’t go through the potentially traumatic experience of transition for s**ts and giggles.
So, do I care that you use the wrong pronoun? Not really. Do I care that you justify that, rather than apologise and correct yourself? Heck yes.
I personally think, we’ve taken this you can be whatever you want thing a bit too far. If someone starts to identify herself as the Queen of England, we won’t start adressing her as your majesty, and yet when a bloke starts to identify himself as a woman, you’re supposed to call him a she. I think a Prof. Farnsworth picture is in order.
Your analogy is flawed. “Man” and “woman” are identities. The conflation with biological sex (which, as has been pointed out elsewhere, is non-binary, as is gender, although in different ways) is non-scientific and employs circular logic.
The Queen/King of England is a position with certain associated abilities (albeit significantly stripped from those of old) which can be held by only one person and is dependent, at this point in time, on a very specific lineage which cannot simply be adopted by anyone. It is not an identity.
“The conflation with biological sex is non-scientific and employs circular logic.”
That is one opinion, however let’s see a definition from Oxford Dictionary: gender: “a euphemism for the sex of a human being”. And I don’t know exactly where the science stands on the issue of correlation between gender and sex (if we accept, that these are in fact different things), the link between the two can not be denied.
Also the working definition of WHO defines, that “‘[m]ale’ and ‘female’ are sex categories”. And since we usually refer to males as “he”, I see no problem, with calling someone, who’s sex is male as “he”, even though that person identifies itself differently, because that has no effect on that person’s sex.
And I’d like to point out, that when we identify ourselves as something, and others perceive us a different way, it generates a conflict. And I don’t think that the way to resolve that said conflict is to force others to perceive us differently. And to point out the absurdity of this, I came up with an extreme example, which probably was not the best analogy one can find, but I think it is still a suitable illustration.
How did you manage to disregard, the working definition of WHO?
Also nice try with the “oh, it’s just the most common usage”, pretending, that lexicons are somehow made by asking the majority, what they think of that word, while in reality lexicons are edited by experts of different fields.
About the example I made: despite the failings of it, it clearly shows, how awkward it can get, when someone sees itself in a completely different light, than everyone else (e.g. expecting to be called your majesty). But let’s see, when someone identifies itself as a nice person, yet everyone sees that person rude. So we should force every one of them to speak of that person as nice, evern though they see it differently?
Your terms of science are quite ambiguous, because the hypothesis is about sexes (I refer to the definition of WHO, which clearly states, that being a male (and a human male is a man), or female is a category of sex), while in the empirical part, you’re talking about genders.
Also there are definitional issues I wouldn’t go into in details, mostly because judging from the hypothesis you were trying to falsify, you don’t understand my standpoint.
So let’s put it in a hypothese: Those who were born with the reproductive organs, associated with males, can be classified as men, and those who were born with the reproductive organs, associated with females can be classified as women, regardless what they think of themselves.
The working definition of WHO you quoted which mentions sex and not gender? I disregarded it as irrelevant to the discussion.
Your entire comment falls under the conflation of sex and gender, which I explained is false. I gave you an argument for this, which you’ve casually disregarded, repeating the hypothesis as fact. You then restated the hypothesis in different form, forgot to actually include real people in evaluating it, and somehow claimed a win.
Okay. So, whether someone is male or female is a question of sex, not gender. With you there. What you’re missing is that being male does not make one a man, as being female does not make one a woman. The terms “man” and “woman” are a description of one’s gender, not their sex.
As for your hypothesis: Nong Poy was born with a penis, and is a woman. Your hypothesis fails.
Being a male sure does not make someone a man, but being a male of the human species does.
“As for your hypothesis: Nong Poy was born with a penis, and is a woman.”
Says you. For me he is a man, who looks like a woman (yeah, yeah, dude looks like a lady). And as I said before, the question finally comes down to this: is it enough for being a man/woman to think of yourself as one? If yes, why, and if not, why not.
“Says you. For me he is a man, who looks like a woman”
In terms of your hypothesis, this is simply you throwing out data because it does not fit your hypothesis. It’s unscientific and disrespectful. It doesn’t matter what I think she is, or what you think she is. Why do you imagine you are a better authority on her gender than she is?
I remember from somewhere that a guy found out a way to make sh!t into burger patties. He managed to remove the nasty things and made it edible. But you wouldn’t want to eat it if you knew where it came from right?
Agreed. I apologise for the slightly clumsy nature of the following analogy.
Imagine you were in a room, and the wallpaper was red. If you liked red that would be fine. If you didn’t that’s your choice and fair enough. If I told the first person (who likes red) that the walls used to be blue, a colour I know they dislike, and they decided to leave the room because of that knowledge, would that be justified?
I fully agree with people saying that thing is not a he, but at the same time it’s also not a she, just because you cut of your d*ck doesn’t mean you are now a women.
No, but having a Y-chromosome means you are a male.
Having said that, if someone born male chose to be referred to as ‘she’, that’s what I would do for them. But I don’t agree with the practice (in the UK, dunno if its the same in the US) of trans people to have their birth certificates ‘updated’ with their ‘new’ gender. As far as I’m concerned, a birth certificate is a record of the occurrences at the time of birth.
There are many different markers of maleness/femaleness, the presence of a Y chromosome being one of them (possible combinations of sex chromosomes include XX, XY, X0, XXY, and XXXY). You can determine it by chromosomes, genitals, hormonal profile, and, some would argue, by identity, since there is evidence to suggest that the brains of trans people are, in some respects, like those of their target sex.
Still, that was a small point. What I wish to address is the birth certificate issue.
Put simply, the birth certificate is not, as the name might suggest, a record of what happened at birth. That’s incredibly simplistic. It is also an extremely important form of identification, one which people will have to produce many times throughout their lives. It’s not something that sits in a database and its backups telling you what the person who made it thought was true at the time.
And so, yes, it should be possible to change it, lest we forever be misidentified.
There’s also a good argument to be made for that marker being incorrect. So, updating one’s birth certificate can also be seen as a correction.
I’m a woman (don’t worry, there’s a laptop in my kitchen) and I can definitely appreciate a beautiful woman, and I prefer feminine looking men. So basically, she’s the transgendered-man-to-woman of my dreams. And seriously, as long as she’s happy, that’s all that matters to me. Back to making sandwiches.
Am I the only one who remembers the fact that we already had this discussion on Very Demotivational? Seriously, guys, can we let it go? Yes, she was born male, but only physically. Gender has as much to do with how you express yourself and how you perceive yourself as it has to do with the genitals you’re born with. Thousands of people are born in a body that doesn’t reflect their mental state, and that’s a horrible place to be. Instead of perpetuating transphobia and causing MORE trans angst, can’t we all just be happy that this beautiful young woman managed to find a way to live her life in a way that makes her happy?
I am, however, pleased to see that more and more people here on Demotivational are taking a more open minded stance on gender and trans acceptance. I remember being outraged at the amount of hate directed toward transfolk the last time this particular picture of Nong Poy came up. Reading through these comments, though, I see a lot more acceptance than last time. It gives me hope that maybe we’re all becoming more rounded human beings who can think through an issue and discuss it rationally. Who knows? Maybe soon we’ll have a much kinder, gentler internet.
Oh, who am I kidding? Enjoy your bigotry, jerks. Me and the rest of the tolerant, pinko-commie hippies will be over in the corner having a drum circle.
I also remember the epic discussions, although that was on a picture of Bailey Jay. Good to see so many being positive this time around. As much as I will come down on the bigots, it’s nice to step back and see how much support there is
You’re absolutely right. Being a REAL woman has nothing to do with cutting off your penis, or what’s between your legs, period. Now, IDENTIFYING as a woman… that’s the key to identifying REAL woman.
I was about to be outraged, but then I read the rest of your comment. And your name for that matter. I think I remember you from the last transpohobic poster we had.
Well played sir, or ma’am, or anything else in between.
It’s entirely possible. I’ve made several comments on the subject, including a TL;DR rant about how there’s no basis for gender but self-identification.
Man or woman, she’s far better looking than any natural born woman I know. The funniest thing about it all is that the people saying they would f*** her and those saying they wouldn’t f*** her, she’s out of your league anyway.
You can’t simply form an argument by stating your point. Even in belle’s brief sentence she was able to form a stronger case that this; put some effort in
Lol @ people throwing around the term “bigot” just because they got called out for being tranny chasers. It doesn’t matter how girly he looks, you still want to f*** someone who was born a male. If that doesn’t turn you off at all, you are at least bi. Stop lying to yourselves.
Apart from the fact that she is female in mind and appearance. If genetics bother you that much then I seriously pity you, but she’s a very attractive woman.
Lol @ the person who thinks sexuality is about not the bodies or identities of those we are attracted to but their genes, which are entirely imperceptible to us.
I get that you’re trying to be respectful, and you’re doing a good job, but it’s not really appropriate to refer to trans* folk using their assigned gender. Just FYI in case you actually get a shot with her, or interact with other trans people in the future
Still counts.
This is MADNESS!!!!
Madness..? Madness…
THIS… IS… THAILAND!!!
No, this is the internet.
NO! This is Patrick!
C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
^this
Just pretend he’s still a she. You didn’t see a penis, did you?
she underwent gender reassingment at 17
so there is no penis ….
read this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treechada_Petcharat
“Doesn’t matter, had sex” should have been the demotivation for this one.
No one who posts on Very Demotivational had, has, or ever will have sex with Nong Poy.
He meant with the hand.
Not sure I’d want to have sex with a dude, even post-op.
*girl
I knew you’d be here. We have to stop meeting like this.
PS. I agree with you.
it*
No, *girl
You’re wrong.
The asterisk for correction goes on the right side, like this:
it*
My apologies.
girl*
Good! But do not do it* again!
I will do girl* as many times as I like!
*Dude with body modification
Can’t change DNA with surgery. Lie to yourself all you want, it’s still cosmetic.
*Girl
DNA has nothing to do with gender identification. Lie to yourself all you want, but she looks, thinks, sounds and acts like a woman.
I am going to become a cat! Yes! I will dress like a cat, act like a cat and sh!t on a litterbox.. Therefore I am a cat!, it all make sense now.
Gender and species are totally the same thing.
Based on her point, yes it is.
Your analogy is incomplete. Species is an objective concept with real implications in the real world. Gender is a societal construct based loosely around a biological one but by no means dependent on it, as demonstrated by people like Nong Poy.
No, I’m pretty sure sexual organs is pretty much an objetive concept.
That they are, although they’re not always as clear cut as you likely believe.
As I said, though, we’re talking about gender here, not physical sex, nor genitals (which are only a part of one’s physical sex). Your comparison is not incomplete, it’s just idiotic. It’s like you didn’t even read my comment.
Fortunately, DNA is not the sole factor in gender identification. Thus, I can disregard your objection as ignorant.
This is it*
I never saw that Movie of Michael Jackson… did you?
Actually, no. What of it?
Nothing, welcome to the internet my dear :troll:
Actually, DNA is, in fact, the sole factor in gender development. What changes gender identification is a chemical imbalence in the brain.
Thanks for backing me up, Sean.
Wrong! No matter how many scalpels you make you acquaintance with, you can never get rid of those boy chromosomes. He is a boy* without a schlong and with fake tits.
Actually, the tits are real, provided they were purely done by HRT (And judging by the size, I’d say they are.)
He’s still hot.
You spelt “she” wrong.
*She’s
And yes. She seriously is.
*Gives Me Hope*
Key word is USED to be. If she’s a she now, why does it matter if she was once a boy? If the sex change is complete then she’s all woman. No male parts, wouldn’t be able to tell she was ever a man. Only real difference is not being able to reproduce.
Yeah and lots of women can’t reproduce, I think she’s pretty.
Eh, some people are shallow. They think that since someone USED to have a penis, they still do, so they think being attracted to someone who is a woman, but at one point, was a man, is gay
Its not.
Ever.
Boy. I never thought not wanting to have sex with a transgender post op would be included on the list of what’s considered shallow. I mean, only liking a girl for her boobs, or refusing to date anyone who isn’t blonde is one things, but has the LGBT movement gone so far as to tell hetero people what they are attracted to and what they aren’t?
I mean, last time I checked anyone would say a good portion of attraction is mental. Take a look at Back to the Future. If you ran into your own mom, and you didn’t know it was her, you’d think she’s hot. Marty’s mom was hot. However… it’s your mom. The moment you learn that your attraction would disappear. However… there is a small segment that would still do it.
So, just because you have absolutely no hesitation in your mind in this arena doesn’t mean no one else will. In fact I would say the lack of acceptance that there’s more than one viewpoint on the question of attraction is very intolerant on your level because you refuse to understand people who wouldn’t find Nong Poy attractive.
I on the other hand couldn’t care less if anybody here finds her attractive. Realistically, I have the best answer for this question. Do what you like, just don’t hurt anyone else and don’t force your beliefs on anyone.
Who could argue with that?
Sorry, what?
Couldn’t hear you over the sound of my own fapping.
Big Eddy, your hands have enough lotion. Leave some for the people with rough elbows.
I have two barrels if you need some.
*continues fapping*
Too long, did not read.
That’s an interestingly idiotic interpretation of that post.
The correct interpretation would have been that lich was saying that it’s shallow to look down on someone else’s attraction to someone who was born the other gender, not that it’s shallow to not be attracted to someone because they used to be the other gender.
“Eh, some people are shallow. They think that since someone USED to have a penis, they still do…”
Um… exactly in what context, even with the “so they think being attracted to someone who is a woman, but at one point, was a man, is gay”, does that not mean that as long as the person doesn’t have a penis that you shouldn’t be unattracted to that?
Reading comprehension fail. Lich was injecting his own opinion, but the first part of his sentence attempted to invalidate those who didn’t agree with it.
You paraphrased to make the statement lose its meaning, then debunked your new statement. This is called a strawman. It is considered a logical fallacy. Now you know.
What to do next time:
“It was my interpretation that they meant it more like, ‘so they think being attracted to someone who is a woman, but at one point, was a man, is gay,’ and I am of the opinion that this point could be countered by saying, ‘does that not mean that as long as the person doesn’t have a penis that you shouldn’t be unattracted to that?’
I apologize that we did not find the same meanign in the same writing, but hey, meaning is subjective so don’t feel bad.”
So, you admit interpretation is subjective, but refer to a differing opinion, even when posting the quote in full context (separated to allow commentary, not deleted or abridged) as a strawman argument?
Now who’s falling on logical fallacy?
TL;DR…
lol serioulsy i lied, i acutally red you comment and i find it pertinent, i don’t espect to seen pointfull comments on memebase.. but i’m lucky there still are normal poeple on internet ( intelectually speaking )
sorry for the bad english i’m french
That’s fair.
I actually know of a trans guy, and he has been attracted to people he thought were other guys before, but then found out they were just androgynous girls, and was instantly no longer attracted. He didn’t understand it himself, but it’s true, attraction can be mental too.
I do think that not being attracted to someone because of them being trans is a subconscious type of ignorance or prejudice though, but only a subconscious/emotional one, and it doesn’t make someone a bad person.
sadly, that’s your opinion. He turned out pretty, that’s for sure; but it is a fact that there is a LOT of people who will never consider him a woman. People should know that, acceptation will not come all at once, and not everyone will agree to the idea of sex change being that simple, i don’t. I think the subject is too delicate. It does not mean you are shallow btw, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It does not make you narrow minded, either. I simply do not think that it is as simple as removing your penis.
….f**k that last part came out wrong. Of course it is not simple at all, but i think it is even MORE complex than what we are aware of.
that last sentence came out wrong. Of course it is not that simple, it’s a human being’s life and happiness. I just think it is even MORE complex than what we are aware of. Just to clear that up
You know, recognizing a problem “a LOT of people [...] will never consider him a woman” and still not respecting how someone wishes to be called (in this case “she”, not “he”) ist kind of sad.
The thing is: if you didn’t know she was trans, would you still call her a “he”? No, you wouldn’t, ’cause she doesn’t look like a man at all. So you take a look at her, think “pretty girl” and then, when you know she’s trans, you switch to “he”, by which you’re making the situation more difficult than it actually is.
So, just answer this question, please: why do you make an affort to switch to the non-correct pronoun? Why is it so hard to just respect her as a human being? Just saying “she” and “her” isn’t asking much. THAT is narrow-mindedness.
I don’t think so… but I’m not going to argue with you
And even if i HAD inserted all the care and hardcore meditation in the world in writing “he” because i considered her a “he”, that would not be wrong of me. And the fact that if the pronoun is correct or not, is your opinion. And if you can’t accept that I have my own, in which i fully believe, just like you do in yours; you are very narrow-minded. I respect your opinion, but mine is not the same. sorry, life’s interesting like that.
First of all: It is, indeed, fairly obvious that you do not put much thought into your posts. We all type in haste on occasion, but if you routinely follow an initial comment up with five self-responses, all with horrible grammar, you should perhaps stop and consider your words more.
Second: Do you have a right to your own opinions? Yes. Does that make intolerance of your intolerance narrow-minded? No. You’re free to consider Nong Poy a man. You’re also free to consider gay people as perverts, or non-whites as subhuman, or Catholics as evil or atheists as devil-worshippers or whatever other group as whatever other misconception you wish. But it still makes you intolerant.
Your opinion or transphobia’s…these do not matter.
What does matter is HER opinion, and her opinion is that she is a woman.
-huggles you a lot- I love seeing when you show up on these pages, belle
“They think that since someone USED to have a penis, they still do”
Hell, I used to have a penis too.
…but then I kindly let it go home with its owner when I was done with it.
So, what are intersex individuals, in your point of view? What about women with hysterectomies, or men who’ve lost testicles to testicular cancer? Not only does gender have nothing to do with sex, but your view of what constitutes biological sex is overly shallow.
That’s moronic. Not all women (those genetically and anatomically born female) have ovaries, just as all men (those genetically and anatomically born male) have testicles. These people do not cease to be men or women when they lose them or have them removed, so obviously you’re wrong.
Also, you’re completely disregarding intersex individuals, as so many people so often do.
Finally, man and woman are not synonymous with male and female. Gender and sex are not the same thing, and trans people (along with androgynes and those of multiple genders) are evidence of that.
She/he is prettier than many mannnyyy real girls out there, I don’t really care but I would totally tap that, I mean come on! She he is hot, and as a plus no baby risk ahah but seriousky, there’s nothing dangling there so is all good
yea, and calling her a she/he is totally going to get you in her pants.-_-
I’m sure she’s browsing these very comments to find someone to have sex with…
Yup.
Come on dude you get my point. -_-U
who care what she WAS, she’s f**king hot now!!!
doesn’t matter had sex
You spelled “piss” wrong
Can’t you change her back?
is it werid that i still fap?
no, it isn’t… she’s quite pretty
stop calling her “he”, if she want’s to be a girl and there was an op – it’s legit. I’d go for her!
(It’s even legit if she hadn’t had an op, by the way.)
(I love you)
(Agreed. Hi, trans
)
Pong Noy is hot regardless. All the man parts are gone, so what does it matter?
*Nong Poy
*Long Boy
*Song Toy
not anymore…
Gay
Dude any guy going for THAT is not gay. Not by a long shot. She is a she now.
not in my book, I very much would like to reproduce with the person i love …. HELL no
So, infertile women don’t count as women, either?
Screw you.
Don’t worry, lalala will never reproduce. If he thinks all sex equals baby, then he’s never had sex. And never will.
I watched two guys one horse and had a cow, does that count? lol
god, why do people have to get so worked up? He said nothing wrong, and anyone with half a brain would understand what lalala meant. And infertile women are NOT the same as transexuals.
not trying to be mean, the just are not the same.
So what has you so worked up over people respecting transgenders?
It’s not about that, and that is not what I meant, regardless of how it came out. What bothers me is people thinking that just because someone can’t think of a transgenders as fully female or male, he/she is an intolerant, narrow minded person, and that is not true. Just the fact that my mind does not fully accept the idea DOES NOT mean that i hate them, or judge them. They still live and exist and deserve all the happiness in the world, regardless if i accept them or not, and i have no interest in getting in their way to do so. It’s not about stopping “transphobia”, because you can not force a person to understand and accept, it’s about stopping the hate. You can disagree to someone’s lifestyle all you want, that’s up to you. Tolerance, in this case, does NOT mean agreeing fully in the nature of transgenders, and if you can’t cope with that you are severely immature and narrow minded; It’s about acknowledging them, and their right to be happy as an indisputable right.
You need to distinguish between “can’t accept” and “won’t accept”. If someone is truly incapable of that kind of mental adjustment then I pity them. The inability to go through life without any sort of enlightenment must be horrible.
They are both women without fully functional sets of uterus/ovaries aren’t they? Unless you like to genotype your dates before sleeping with them to check for Y chromosomes there is no real difference.
IF they tell you “I used to be a man” Straight up i don’t see the problem, the problem is that most of them DON’T … there are people who don’t care, there are those that do, everything would be solved if they just say it rather than trying to hide it.
Yeah, right. Because they don’t risk discrimination and even violence by telling anyone that they’re trans, do they. Life would be SO SIMPLE if everyone just stopped being a bigoted prick, now wouldn’t it.
Personally, I’d put my own safety over someone else’s right to know all the things about me they may use to justify violating that safety any day.
Also, can you produce some reliable statistics on your assertion that most are not forthcoming with that information?
So? She’s still a girl. Even has the typical girl parts now. Fapping to her doesn’t make you gay.
Cue the Quagmire clip of “Whoa, transvestite, back off! Wait, pre-op or post-op?”
Post-op transvestite? So a girl that used to have a male body and now wears men’s clothing?
Is there a point where we say, “Hey, you’re not a dude anymore! Now we can haz the s*x and I’m still hetero!”.
Better “Hey, you’re actually a she now!”
Yes, there is a point. Stop committing the Fallacy of Loki’s Wager.
Yes, there is. The point at which you can say that is the point where you stop caring.
Pre-op/post-op/whatever… if she identifies as a woman, then she’s a woman.
Oh dear.
Everyone: she is a woman. She has been a woman since she began identifying as such. Pre/post/non-op, doesn’t matter. Referring to her as a guy is insensitive and inaccurate.
Also, hot!
Yeah no kidding, if a woman by birth had sex with this woman it would not be heterosexual sex that’s for sure XD
I give you five extra internets for dat.
This.
I’m not very good with complimenting people on just comments on here, so all I can’t really think of this is:
No, //you’re// pretty. c:
I agree. No flag on the play, definitely not too many men on the field in this situation.
i think people also need to accept the fact that to many, she will never be a woman.
And they’re insensitive. Judging by your other comments, I presume you’re one of them.
If people can’t accept a transsexual person as the gender they identify as, op or not, they need to do what they do for the other 95+% of the population: ignore them.
If they aren’t with you (nobody specifically here), there’s little-to-no reason for you to know or care what their past may be. If knowing the fact changes your attraction, move on or close the window. Only insensitive dillweeds or bigots would go to the extent of insulting them or diminishing their struggles/efforts.
I was just stating that fact. It doesn’t mean i hate them, or that i don’t want them to be happy. I do not mean that as an insult.
There are also racists who will never consider black people “people.” And no, we don’t “need to accept” those haters or any others.
Holy s**t, i do not hate them. Tolerance does not mean agreeing on every different opinion, it’s about accepting it and respecting it as such. The fact that i have my own opinion about trangenders DOES NOT mean i hate them or that I would get out of my way to insult them. That is not intolerance, that is just hate. So just because i don’t agree with you doesn’t make me a bad person. That’s what i’m trying to say, there’s a whole spectrum of thoughts in the matter, not only the hardcore defenders, the ‘haters’, the ones who don’t give a f**k, and people need to understand that.
“That is not intolerance, that is just hate.”
Yes. You see? Intolerance and hate are different things. Not respecting the identity of trans people, and making no effort to when interacting with them, IS intolerance. Not hate, but intolerance.
I’m going to put this out there: for most people, this is something very new. Most people don’t know how misgendering can be very hurtful, and how it supports a society which does SGD people. I get that, and so I won’t say you are a bad person for thinking this is okay.
However, as a trans woman, I am telling you these things right now. If you want to be respectful, I implore you to take this on board, and try to take steps to be more respectful in the future, if not in your beliefs then at least in your speech. I don’t think you’re a bad person for not knowing these things, but choosing to remain ignorant is another matter entirely.
Oh god, It doesn’t mean that i do not consider them people, honestly, what the hell? They are just as human as I am, and with all the same rights. I do not hate them, i would not get out of my way to insult them, because the fact that i think differently does not turn me into a cruel person. I don’t think i’m better than them, not at all. And just because i have a different opinion, doesn’t mean that i am a hateful person.
In the context of something like this, merely saying you don’t recognize that they are the gender they identify as is being hurtful. And sometimes, is very easily taken as hateful.
You’re overreacting to a lot of comments as replies to what you’ve said, by the way. You might want to tone down the sensitivity to criticism.
lol, yeah well, im a noob in commenting, so i don’t really know when to stop… hahah i didnt intend to be all intense, sorry, its just that it being the subject that it is i didn’t want anyone to misunderstand what i wanted to say…. anyways sorry for the oversensitive rant
Nope. Sorry. This is basically saying we need to accept that, to many, gay couples will never have “real relationships”.
I realise it’s hard. My family struggles with it. They put in the effort, though. I understand that peoples’ brains have been trained to view people in ways that are very problematic for trans people, and they may get it wrong from time to time. There’s a difference between that and not even trying, though.
If you want to interact with, or make a comment about, a trans person, then you need to make an effort to respect their identity. Not just their right to happiness – their identity, because their identity is integral to their happiness. You don’t go through the potentially traumatic experience of transition for s**ts and giggles.
So, do I care that you use the wrong pronoun? Not really. Do I care that you justify that, rather than apologise and correct yourself? Heck yes.
You are a great person. Wish we had some other means to communicate, seems like we’d really get on
I was hoping you’d show up!
Would be great to talk some other way. I am, after all, a truly awesome person, and it seems you, too, are fairly awesome.
….that last part was unnecessary. You can state your opinion without wishing wrong to others.
Not always if you want to make a point, unfortunately.
I personally think, we’ve taken this you can be whatever you want thing a bit too far. If someone starts to identify herself as the Queen of England, we won’t start adressing her as your majesty, and yet when a bloke starts to identify himself as a woman, you’re supposed to call him a she. I think a Prof. Farnsworth picture is in order.
Your analogy is flawed. “Man” and “woman” are identities. The conflation with biological sex (which, as has been pointed out elsewhere, is non-binary, as is gender, although in different ways) is non-scientific and employs circular logic.
The Queen/King of England is a position with certain associated abilities (albeit significantly stripped from those of old) which can be held by only one person and is dependent, at this point in time, on a very specific lineage which cannot simply be adopted by anyone. It is not an identity.
“The conflation with biological sex is non-scientific and employs circular logic.”
That is one opinion, however let’s see a definition from Oxford Dictionary: gender: “a euphemism for the sex of a human being”. And I don’t know exactly where the science stands on the issue of correlation between gender and sex (if we accept, that these are in fact different things), the link between the two can not be denied.
Also the working definition of WHO defines, that “‘[m]ale’ and ‘female’ are sex categories”. And since we usually refer to males as “he”, I see no problem, with calling someone, who’s sex is male as “he”, even though that person identifies itself differently, because that has no effect on that person’s sex.
And I’d like to point out, that when we identify ourselves as something, and others perceive us a different way, it generates a conflict. And I don’t think that the way to resolve that said conflict is to force others to perceive us differently. And to point out the absurdity of this, I came up with an extreme example, which probably was not the best analogy one can find, but I think it is still a suitable illustration.
How did you manage to disregard, the working definition of WHO?
Also nice try with the “oh, it’s just the most common usage”, pretending, that lexicons are somehow made by asking the majority, what they think of that word, while in reality lexicons are edited by experts of different fields.
About the example I made: despite the failings of it, it clearly shows, how awkward it can get, when someone sees itself in a completely different light, than everyone else (e.g. expecting to be called your majesty). But let’s see, when someone identifies itself as a nice person, yet everyone sees that person rude. So we should force every one of them to speak of that person as nice, evern though they see it differently?
Your terms of science are quite ambiguous, because the hypothesis is about sexes (I refer to the definition of WHO, which clearly states, that being a male (and a human male is a man), or female is a category of sex), while in the empirical part, you’re talking about genders.
Also there are definitional issues I wouldn’t go into in details, mostly because judging from the hypothesis you were trying to falsify, you don’t understand my standpoint.
So let’s put it in a hypothese: Those who were born with the reproductive organs, associated with males, can be classified as men, and those who were born with the reproductive organs, associated with females can be classified as women, regardless what they think of themselves.
*Those who were born ONLY with the reproductive organs…
sorry, I left out that word.
The working definition of WHO you quoted which mentions sex and not gender? I disregarded it as irrelevant to the discussion.
Your entire comment falls under the conflation of sex and gender, which I explained is false. I gave you an argument for this, which you’ve casually disregarded, repeating the hypothesis as fact. You then restated the hypothesis in different form, forgot to actually include real people in evaluating it, and somehow claimed a win.
Okay. So, whether someone is male or female is a question of sex, not gender. With you there. What you’re missing is that being male does not make one a man, as being female does not make one a woman. The terms “man” and “woman” are a description of one’s gender, not their sex.
As for your hypothesis: Nong Poy was born with a penis, and is a woman. Your hypothesis fails.
Being a male sure does not make someone a man, but being a male of the human species does.
“As for your hypothesis: Nong Poy was born with a penis, and is a woman.”
Says you. For me he is a man, who looks like a woman (yeah, yeah, dude looks like a lady). And as I said before, the question finally comes down to this: is it enough for being a man/woman to think of yourself as one? If yes, why, and if not, why not.
“Says you. For me he is a man, who looks like a woman”
In terms of your hypothesis, this is simply you throwing out data because it does not fit your hypothesis. It’s unscientific and disrespectful. It doesn’t matter what I think she is, or what you think she is. Why do you imagine you are a better authority on her gender than she is?
Meh, I think its kinky.
I believe the great sage Shakira once said ‘these hips don’t lie’ -in other words, yowza.
Yowza? Do we really say that?
Anyway, agreed.
Afraid I fapped after reading the caption D:
It’s a trap! A ‘booby’ trap! Diducwatididthar?
Still doing it.
DC;SF
Don’t care; still fapped.
Well done sir!
I shall be nominating you for the ‘Acronym of the Week’ awards.
Awwww…..
No extra part anymore?
can’t pretend that she’s a futa anymore?
me so sad………
Glad to see that memebase is supportive of transphobic asshats. You know, because it’s cool these days to discriminate.
Dat ass
Excuse me, where do you have special seating for dolphins?
Over there by the tall, negro, basketballer seating.
I’d tap that.
I remember from somewhere that a guy found out a way to make sh!t into burger patties. He managed to remove the nasty things and made it edible. But you wouldn’t want to eat it if you knew where it came from right?
sh!t = boy
burger = girl
Why do you think boys are sh*t? :/
found the video
This may be the most offensive comment I’ve seen on here today. Well done!
Agreed. I apologise for the slightly clumsy nature of the following analogy.
Imagine you were in a room, and the wallpaper was red. If you liked red that would be fine. If you didn’t that’s your choice and fair enough. If I told the first person (who likes red) that the walls used to be blue, a colour I know they dislike, and they decided to leave the room because of that knowledge, would that be justified?
It’s a trap!
pfff yeah and.
She is a she. Stop the transphobia.
“she” is a real woman just like this guy is a tiger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger-Man
So, wait a mo’, you’re saying that he’s a tiger?! Are you stupid?
sorry, wrong link
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/the-tiger-man/ufewbdp2
I’d tap her even when she was he.
Darn Bi-sexuals, you are greedy!
i wouldnt mind…
I fully agree with people saying that thing is not a he, but at the same time it’s also not a she, just because you cut of your d*ck doesn’t mean you are now a women.
Just because you have or had a d*ck doesn’t mean you are a man.
No, but having a Y-chromosome means you are a male.
Having said that, if someone born male chose to be referred to as ‘she’, that’s what I would do for them. But I don’t agree with the practice (in the UK, dunno if its the same in the US) of trans people to have their birth certificates ‘updated’ with their ‘new’ gender. As far as I’m concerned, a birth certificate is a record of the occurrences at the time of birth.
There are many different markers of maleness/femaleness, the presence of a Y chromosome being one of them (possible combinations of sex chromosomes include XX, XY, X0, XXY, and XXXY). You can determine it by chromosomes, genitals, hormonal profile, and, some would argue, by identity, since there is evidence to suggest that the brains of trans people are, in some respects, like those of their target sex.
Still, that was a small point. What I wish to address is the birth certificate issue.
Put simply, the birth certificate is not, as the name might suggest, a record of what happened at birth. That’s incredibly simplistic. It is also an extremely important form of identification, one which people will have to produce many times throughout their lives. It’s not something that sits in a database and its backups telling you what the person who made it thought was true at the time.
And so, yes, it should be possible to change it, lest we forever be misidentified.
There’s also a good argument to be made for that marker being incorrect. So, updating one’s birth certificate can also be seen as a correction.
I’m gonna go recap this as a demotivational that says “I don’t”
I just don’t give a f**k.
just to make it 69 comments lol
If you find her attractive, you find her attractive. I really don’t see the problem.
I’m a woman (don’t worry, there’s a laptop in my kitchen) and I can definitely appreciate a beautiful woman, and I prefer feminine looking men. So basically, she’s the transgendered-man-to-woman of my dreams. And seriously, as long as she’s happy, that’s all that matters to me.
Back to making sandwiches.
I’m so jealous of her…
Am I the only one who remembers the fact that we already had this discussion on Very Demotivational? Seriously, guys, can we let it go? Yes, she was born male, but only physically. Gender has as much to do with how you express yourself and how you perceive yourself as it has to do with the genitals you’re born with. Thousands of people are born in a body that doesn’t reflect their mental state, and that’s a horrible place to be. Instead of perpetuating transphobia and causing MORE trans angst, can’t we all just be happy that this beautiful young woman managed to find a way to live her life in a way that makes her happy?
I am, however, pleased to see that more and more people here on Demotivational are taking a more open minded stance on gender and trans acceptance. I remember being outraged at the amount of hate directed toward transfolk the last time this particular picture of Nong Poy came up. Reading through these comments, though, I see a lot more acceptance than last time. It gives me hope that maybe we’re all becoming more rounded human beings who can think through an issue and discuss it rationally. Who knows? Maybe soon we’ll have a much kinder, gentler internet.
Oh, who am I kidding? Enjoy your bigotry, jerks. Me and the rest of the tolerant, pinko-commie hippies will be over in the corner having a drum circle.
I also remember the epic discussions, although that was on a picture of Bailey Jay. Good to see so many being positive this time around. As much as I will come down on the bigots, it’s nice to step back and see how much support there is
You’re absolutely right. Being a REAL woman has nothing to do with cutting off your penis, or what’s between your legs, period. Now, IDENTIFYING as a woman… that’s the key to identifying REAL woman.
I was about to be outraged, but then I read the rest of your comment. And your name for that matter. I think I remember you from the last transpohobic poster we had.
Well played sir, or ma’am, or anything else in between.
I’m a fan of fakeouts. XD
It’s entirely possible. I’ve made several comments on the subject, including a TL;DR rant about how there’s no basis for gender but self-identification.
And it’s ma’am, for future reference. :3
You just lost the crying game.
Well there is the saying that “the best looking women in Thailand aren’t.”
Man or woman, she’s far better looking than any natural born woman I know. The funniest thing about it all is that the people saying they would f*** her and those saying they wouldn’t f*** her, she’s out of your league anyway.
Surgery or not, that’s still a boy’s tongue in your mouth.
The tongue belongs to a girl, so technically it’s a girl’s tongue.
No. It isn’t. That’s my point.
You can’t simply form an argument by stating your point. Even in belle’s brief sentence she was able to form a stronger case that this; put some effort in
clitoris
yaaaaaaaay transphobia
Lol @ people throwing around the term “bigot” just because they got called out for being tranny chasers. It doesn’t matter how girly he looks, you still want to f*** someone who was born a male. If that doesn’t turn you off at all, you are at least bi. Stop lying to yourselves.
Apart from the fact that she is female in mind and appearance. If genetics bother you that much then I seriously pity you, but she’s a very attractive woman.
Lol @ the person who thinks sexuality is about not the bodies or identities of those we are attracted to but their genes, which are entirely imperceptible to us.
Looked it up on google ….
…and damn it, I’d tap that any day. And would still be less gay then twilight.
Hah, pansexual!
PREFER ALL THE GENDERS!
Where is the +1 button?
Hell,I’m bisexual,i’d tap that either way
I’m a girl and I would still hit that. I like him better as a girl, actually.
I get that you’re trying to be respectful, and you’re doing a good job, but it’s not really appropriate to refer to trans* folk using their assigned gender. Just FYI in case you actually get a shot with her, or interact with other trans people in the future
Fapped anyways. Come on me, bro…. I mean AT me.
She’s cute. How much does she charge?
I’m here to enforce Godwin’s law you fascist bastard!