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that poor plan
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Mmmmmmm……tasty animals….tasty veggies….tasty fruit…life is good!
are you trying to tell me that Veggies tales has been lieing to me this whole time?!
Also, OP never said the plant was conscious, just alive. Plants are most certainly living organisms, just not sentient (at least in the way we perceive it, they can respond to stimuli and do other fun things but we’ll not get that in depth).
More specifically, consciousness/sentience cannot be disproven (or proven for that matter — the best we can do is compelling but inconclusive evidence for [this is the crux of the existential dilemma.])
The line between consciousness and sentience is usually easily defined, but as I’ve seen in many people who should be sentient, they are barely conscious. Welcome to America.
Welcome to most anywhere these days.
And due to this, some religions/philosophies/worldviews will not harm plants, or are very hesitant to do so. They might condone eating a fallen fruit, but not picking the fruit itself. Thus, while the OP might seem ridiculous, there are actually people who would agree and shape their diets and lifestyles around the idea that plants are equally alive as animals.
Just being a troll here:
A plant breeds by scattering seeds.
Fruit contains the seeds.
Therefore fallen fruit is an unborn plant.
So eating fallen fruit is eating plant foetuses.
Only that is how the seeds get transported to a new environment, you are actually doing the plant a favour by eating the fruit (well in theory, doesn’t quite work out because of modern society).
Yea, the fruit is mostly the travel medium for the seed. Animal comes across tasty fruit, eats all of it and poos out the seed somewhere else
Delivered with fertilizer!
If fallen fruit are dead plant foetuses, does that mean North Carolina’s latest abortion law requires mammograms before a tree decides to let the fruit fall?
agreed
con·scious/ˈkänCHəs/
Adjective:
Aware of and responding to one’s surroundings; awake.
since plants respond to light as well as other stimuli (temperature, animals, etc). they can be said to be conscious.
sen·tient/ˈsenCH(ē)ənt/
Adjective:
Able to perceive or feel things
so since plants don’t communicate in a way we can perceive as actual communication. it is possible that they are trying but no one cares since they taste too good.
Certain trees, when attacked by insects release chemicals that are born by the wind. Trees downwind react to those chemicals and produce chemicals to protect themselves from those insects. That could be considered communication.
Actually, studies have been done that prove some sentience. Carrots faint, potatoes ‘scream’, when about to be prepared for eating. Can’t find the link right off hand.
I like how extreme stupidity is the side effect of meat eating is that person’s argument, really help his case.
By the way. EPIC Vegan Flame War in
3…..2….1!
Meat eating is God’s way of keeping both population down by having predators for Cows and Pigs and by shorting our life span.
EPIC Religious Flame War in
3…..2…..1!
God does not exist.
EPIC fail…
C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COUNTER TROLL!!
F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-FAAAAAAAAAIL!
EPIC Philosophic Flame War in
3…..2…..1
God is Dead. Wait, quoting Nitschze can’t be a good idea
pft like cows would be alive at all as a species at this point
We created cows from aurochs.
Which are now extinct.
Proof of concept, no?
If we found/developed something tastier/easier to raise/more efficient but with a similar/superior taste to beef, cows might well die off, to be replaced with whatever we deem better.
It is nigh-certain that there wouldn’t be nearly as many cows in the world if they weren’t so damn tasty~
if human’s never ate meat we would not have evolved to have “sentience” and would not be having this argument. furthermore our digestive system is designed for the consumption of a omnivore diet. animals that are herbivores have much longer digestive tracts.
This.
No, humans developed sentience because of fire. Humans had already been eating raw meat for who knows how long, and their bodies were designed more around digesting the meat. When humans began utilizing fire, evolution kicked in and the human body was modified by nature with a more powerful brain.
However, your argument about the digestive system is really good.
Actualllyyyy…..humans in a certain part of the primative stage were herbivores, but when the plants started to become much lower quality during a change in the surrounding environments they began to eat meat too. We were scavengers for most of our existance, eating meat we stole from other predators using our numbers and simple tools (like throwing rocks). The extra nutrients provided us with enough energy and nutrients to expand our brain capacity to further our intellectual ability. My sources for this evidence are listed below:
Source:
I”t’s unlikely that proto humans could have secured enough energy and nutrition from the plants available in their African environment at that time to evolve into the active, sociable, intelligent creatures they became. Receding forests would have deprived them of the more nutritious leaves and fruits that forest-dwelling primates survive on” – Katharine Milton (Physical Anthropologist)
That is just one bit of evidence, the rest is in my University books which I can’t exactly upload onto here! Still an interesting debate though.
What makes me laugh is when people say “Meat is not necessary in Modern Day”. They are usually middle-class people and Western. (either European or North American). No, eating Meat is not necessary for survival in middle-class western civilisation, but many people around the world still rely on meat for their livelihood and survival. Explain to rural farmers that they should be eating a meat-free gluten-free taste-free air-free free-free protein shake instead of that cow!
So being a vegan is more of a political standpoint, since they are the 1%, who are we to judge?
So being a vegan is more of a political standpoint, since they are the 1%, who are we to judge. Aren’t we all inbreads from god’s view
?
So eating meat shortens our life span?
Really? You’re going to go with that?
Also, there are “predators” for veggies too– gee, I think they’re called “herbavores.” And disease and weather are just as much of a pupulation control than hunting is. Now what?
I’m a meat eater, but also an annoying fact-pointer-outer (and word-maker- upper!)
Plants are conscious, just not at the speed you are used to on animals
Plants do not grow randomly, the way they “think” is just so different of the animal way that vegans don’t want to admit it
As posted around here before, I didn’t climb up to the food chain to eat GRASS
I’ll go with the theory that plants may be aware in a way we don’t understand, but it is obvious that they can react to stimuli.
Examples being flowers opening around sunrise and closing at sundown, the hairs in a venus fly trap causing the “mouth” to close when a fly gets far enough in
Also read #5:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19456_8-things-you-wont-believe-plants-do-when-no-ones-looking.html
If a plant can hold a grudge i would say it’s intelligent
I love your avatar
FOR PONY!!!!!
I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals. I’m a vegetarian because I hate plants!
Note to vegan who wrote the second demotivator: the first guy said plants are *alive*, not plants are *conscious*. Extreme stupidity apparently a side effect of a vegan diet (This is in addition to a higher rate of malnutrition due to lack of protein and vitamin B12 and the fact that a large percentage of vegans are just trying to cover up their anorexia nervosa.)
I was going to say this same thing but you did it better than i would have, rock on “NoAngryTeen”! Now, where is my rum?!
Err…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html
so if a cow is knocked unconscious you will eat it?
Not a cow, that’s gross. Only unconscious people and veggies.
Fat chicks need love, too.
giggity
Y’know what I call people who are into fat chicks? Trekkies.
…Cuz they’re boldly going where no man has gone before. ^^
Ugh. I have completed my research into the internet. Conclusion:
The internet is a massive, roiling toilet bowl at the stadium of life into which the egos of every man and woman deposit their endless secretions of self-absorption.
…with cats.
FTFY
Oh! Good addition. Thanks. =)
*cough*pr0n*cough*
Spencer, in one sentence you perfectly described life behind the glowing screen. You are the best.
According to some evolutionary theories, it was the introduction of animal proteins (meat) into the diet that allowed the human brain to develop increased intelligence. So really, meat makes you smarter.
That explains why vegetarians only eat veggies
also the need to catch your food. If it can run away and you can’t just walk up to it and start nomming, you’re going to have to wise up. Why I always doubt when sci fi shows depict veggie aliens.
Larry Niven wrote a series of books (read them years ago, can’t remember titles) in which a large alien carnivore says contemptuously to a vegetarian human, “How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a leaf?”
Ringworld series
and the human wasn’t vegetarian, they were talking about another (herbivorical) alien
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111009.gif
Cattle are conscious. Steak isn’t.
^This
Watch Troll 2 to get a an interesting look into the lives of vegetarians
I’m a vegi, I laughed.
fun fact, animals are not intelligent, comparing them to humans is retarted.
I’m on your side…
But if you’re going to call someone retarded, at least spell it right.
Humans aren’t intelligent, either. Your argument is INVALID.
There aint no such thinh as a vegan
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2361/cattle.jpg
Vegans…. can we feed them to the lions?
And then eat the lions.
FTW!!!!!!!
Also, while the meat industry may produce enough pollution as the transportation industry, guess how you get your veggies? they get to the store ON A TRUCK…..lame ass vegans….so pale and weak from eating tofu and bean sprouts…..
It’s much less resource intensive to grow an equivalent amount of fruits and vegetables as opposed to cattle or other farm animals.
We need to get a study of 2000 pairs of identical twins- feed one side of each pair an omnivorous diet (meat and veggies, etc…) and the other side vegan/vegetarian foods. So we can prove one way or another which is healthier. That way, we can get the debate solved.
Personally- I think a lot of vegans and vegetarians are as bad as some of the worst religious trolls that try to argue for their beliefs.
To those particular vegans/vegetarians- I choose to exercise my evolutionary right to be an omnivore, and eat both meat and veggies/fruit as I desire, as there has not been such a conclusive study done on it, please be quiet, or organize one such study.
I think you have spoken for the entire race of mankind. Congratulations.
Vegan diets require a lot of planning to be healthy otherwise you can easily become deficient in a number of different vitamins/minerals; just saying that vegan diets aren’t as good for you as they are made out to be, yes you may remove a lot of fat etc. but you could end up with a load of other problems if you aren’t careful.
I once heard a vegan talking about some sort of magical bean that has all the proteins you need to live. But you know what else does? Steak, and it’s 3 times cheaper.
soy, quinoa, lentils, some legumes- they aren’t expensive, or unusual, dude. And yes, I love meat, but your argument is faulty. which offends me more than a preachy vegan, btw.
you still can’t get vitamin B12 from just plants, we need meat, we are no longer made to eat just plants, we haven’t been for like 6 million years, if ever… the only apes that can survive with just plants are orangutans and gorillas, and even they eat meat on occasion…
Wrong. You can get vitamin B12 from just plants. Please think before you post.
No, you cannot, vitamin B12 is produced by intestinal bacteria in herbivores, plants don’t make any of that, please think before you reply, and add some B12 supplement to your diet, it’s important for brain function…
Yeah, and you know what? Steak isn’t healthy. Beans are. And the fact that it is 3 times cheaper, only states the poor condition the animal was in: pomped up with hormones, obese and sad. But thank goodness, it’s cheap! Idiot.
Get off your high horse. I wanna eat it.
Steak from grass-fed cows is quite healthy, good source of iron, vitamin B12 and other goodies. Beans are good, but if you eat too many of them they can be poisonous, they have a little bit of a toxin, so boil them very well before you eat them, especially kidney beans.
OR eat a Kidney with some beans and probably a chianti or sth.
That and the shyt you need to consume might not come from your area. So it would never happen in nature. AND some of the stuff you consume is processed.
If you can be a (insert lifestyle with “v” in it here) and live off stuff that grows in your area, more power to you.
If not, get off your high horse.
…”introvert” has a V in it…
If people were vegetarians or vegans we wouldn’t exist… we would have died off during the first winter…
dude, you need to eat more veggies. There are TONS of winter veggies. hardy leafy greens, like kale, collard, spinach. Winter squash (butternut, spaghetti, acorn). Apples in the fall. Oranges and carrots in southern winters. Beets, broccoli, cauliflower, celery, leeks, sweet potatoes, turnips, and it’s super easy to store things like potatoes and onions.
and yes, I love my meat. but as stated above, faulty arguments piss me off more than preachy vegans.
“Winter veggies” are grown in greenhouse, or brought from other countries. In winter when the earth is frozen solid, there is not a single veggie that can grow.
Guess what they have been doing in european winter for 2.5 millions year before food storage was efficient or the first greenhouse invented?
Meat exclusive diet. (almost, they had to eat roots and stuff or they would have all died of scurvy).
Also meat is more easily cured than veggies or fruits
We only managed to do that when we developed agriculture, so while we were evolving, no abundant veggie meals for anyone in winter, just meat, as you can see from the fossil record and paintings in caves, we were hunters for a very long time, only way we could survive in the parts of Eurasia and North America where you have strong snow in winter…
LOL! Veggies are stupid!
Oh, vegan trolls.
Carrots have an IQ of six. And plants can communicate and need to breathe like meaty organisms.
Interesting. How would one give an IQ test to a carrot? State your source, or shut up. Agreeing with HvsL here.
bla IS a carrot.
Rob Sneider is a carrot and he surely has an IQ of 6!
I thought Schneider was a stapler.
i think he was talking about snooki…
Quick! Lock the doors! HIDE!!!!
Maybe if you ate meat you wouldn’t be so cranky.
Sometimes we need to step back and look at the big picture. People are reading to much into this. Look at what almost every animal organism on earth is doing. Eating other animals or plants!:DDD. So unless you’re an autotroph, just eat, AT LEAST, the damn plants. The plants don’t care! From a logical point of view, the primary goal of the plants is to avoid extinction. Since picking/eating fruits and such furthers that goal, then you should have a clear consciousness as you rip the metaphorical intestines out of that next apple/peach/ whatever.
Animals are parasites of plants, each and every one of them…
“Most” animals are ‘predators’ of plants, no parasites. Insects are parasites of plants.
Parasites live on or inside their ‘host’ and feed on it while it is alive.
I can only think of maple tree, which wee leech on they sap like aphids…
And anyway, it is certainly not “each and every one of them” because they are many 100% carnivorous species
Insects are animals but I agree with your point………..
We can’t live without plants, they can live without us, we are the inferior creatures…
not true, without us converting oxygen into carbon dioxide, they would die. at least eventually
They do produce their own carbon dioxide. Just pretty slowly as it happens only in the dark, at least for most species.
And now that I read this, I should make myself clearer by saying that they produce CO2 all the time, but their CO2 intake is higher at day time, so the only time that they produce more of it than use it up is at night.
Nah, enough CO2 comes from volcanoes, organic matter decomposition and their own breathing to sustain them, have you seen a terrarium? If all animals disappeared, some plants that evolved to take advantage from us, such as venus fly traps, might dissapear, but many would do just fine without us…
There is no superiority or inferiority. Objectively, we’re all equally insignificant. Now please climb out of your giant bong.
Mmmm. Sanctimonious vegan pontificating makes me want…veal…mmm.
time to eat the coma patients
i believe they are not conscious either
Actually, the scientific community has done a few studies on plant behavior and consciousness, and discovered that, to a limited extent, plants are sentient. Not only do they respond to sunlight and direct their growth, but plants respond to kindness and music. Positive reinforcement or having music played in greenhouses led to healthier plants, while negative reinforcement actually reduced the overall health of the plants.
As to the allegation that agriculture produces as much greenhouse emission as the auto industry, that’s untrue. To the best of my knowledge commercial agriculture exceeds the emissions contributions of transportation. Now, I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with eating meat- are we scolding lions for doing so?- I do think there’s a lot of room for change in the agricultural industry, and that’s where we should be focusing, rather than trying to convert people to vegetarianism and veganism.
Sorry this post was so long.
At least Carnivores eat things that have the chance to run away…lazy Vegetarians…
So, vegetarians are cool with eating people in comas? Got it. I finally understand vegetarianism.
Vegans are grumpy!
And vegetarians.
I heard a story from a biology teacher about an experiment done with cabbages. tl;dr version: it turns out they are capable of fear.
I cant believe no one brought this up:
(language warning)
WHERE IS YOUR VEGAN GOD NOW?!?!
Wtf? that dude said “put it in the oven” and he did put them in the dish washer?!?!
Doesn’t matter, had steak.
I loled. I need to stop reading these when I am tired.
or drunk!
You idiots. Vegan or vegetarian doesn’t mean not eating anything that lives or has feelings or whatever. It literally means: EATING PLANTS(only). DUH. Please don’t make idiotic comments about something you clearly don’t get.
I shall embark on a campaign to eat every vegan’s high horse. Beware.
There are many reasons why people choose a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle. The specific reason espoused in the specific post which started this specific discussion is “A plant is not conscious.”
“Please don’t make idiotic comments about something you clearly don’t get.”
So..
This means I can eat coma patients?
Vegans don’t even drink milk. How is milk sentient?
And how about eggs?
Vegans don’t eat eggs because they don’t like the idea of eating an unborn chicken.
As for the milk, they disagree with the way cows are treated when acquiring the milk.
Why they don’t just buy their own cows and milk them while the cows are laying on a bed of pure gold and silk, I have no idea.
So… Animals have a conscious? Is that proven? If yes…… hmm anyone else gettin’ hungry?
It’s still dead you idiot. You can’t win.
As carlos mencia once said (which he probably stole from someone else) Enjoy this tasty rock.
If the meat industry produces as much carbon dioxide (cause carbon is like, regular nature stuff, not harmful to the environment) as the transportation industry, shouldn’t we eat all the meat so it doesn’t have to be transported anymore and win twice?
If the meat industry produces as much carbon dioxide (cause carbon is like, regular nature stuff, not harmful to the environment) as the transportation industry, shouldn’t we eat all the meat so it doesn’t have to be transported anymore and win twice?
A few things.
1: Plants cannot be proven to be conscious or not simply because their physiology is vastly different. There’s this over at Cracked that suggests they’re pretty smart: http://www.cracked.com/article_19456_8-things-you-wont-believe-plants-do-when-no-ones-looking.html
2: The meat industry does not produce as much carbon as transportation does. Instead, they produce METHANE, a far worse greenhouse gas.
3: The generally poorer health of meat eaters isn’t from eating meat, it’s that they don’t have as balanced of a diet. Raw vegans aren’t any better, since they usually have a B vitamin deficiency and lower than nominal body fat since they “count their sugar intake” as well.
That said, I’m not giving up bacon because some pinko salad eater told me something died to feed me. Global warming isn’t as detrimental as you say, either; 1 degree in 50 years isn’t going to melt the ice caps. That just means the average temp at the poles is -79 instead of -80.
Meh. You had me until you decided to throw the global warming tirade in at the end. Stick to what you know, buddy.
Methane is also produced in ungodly amounts from rice production, I think its even more than meat farming.
and Methane is an energy gas
you can use it to provide power (like a lot of city dumps do) and then dispose of it safely
Behh. I’ve heard vegans say they don’t eat anything that casts a shadow. So plants have no shadows now.
step 1, raise cows underground
step 2, problem? vegans
if everybody was vegan we’d all die. the population keeps rising meaning more and more people eating plants also we constantly cut down trees and bushes cuz they are dead or considered ugly and unwanted to make room for houses and build houses and make paper towels, so over time there would be no plants meaning no oxygen for you nor the precious animals you seek to protect.
cuz i know somebody will say we have people who grow the plants for us, well they aren’t gonna be around forever and with the way the world is starting to head everybody is gonna be to lazy to do the job and i don’t care what people say humans are no way near smart enough to ever create a machine to do the growing for us. and is vegans hate when people eat animals, its stupid, cuz animals eat other animals, so do they hate those animals?
Vegetarianism and veganism are byproducts of an overly indulgent society. Where else ion the world other than very developed, rich, and abundant of resources could people deny the omnivorous nature humans have evolved to have and eat things based on silly, woman like irrational emotions?
And if anyone says, “In the jungle” you are free to move there and get eaten by a zombie gorilla.
^This.
^this, also.
Always ALWAYS use blatant sexism when attempting to debunk the irrational generalizations of others.
Obviously this vegetarian is a cold heart having wretch.
Plants can’t speak, but they can feel.
P.S. Snoop INGUS usual I see?
Can’t sleep. Vegans will eat me.
Can’t sleep. Vegans will eat me.
Can’t sleep. Vegans will eat me.
not being able to spell “meat-eating” and superiority complex; apparently a side effect of not eating like a normal human being
Why hasn’t anyone commented on the fact that plants produce our oxygen? And that vegans are eating our oxygen supply?
And that theres this massive hype about too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?
Al Gore was wrong, there is only excessive CO2 because there are more and more vegans eating less CO2 producers (animals) and more oxygen producers (plants).
plants eat meat